While at the university today between classes, I was thinking about something that I’ve often thought about (and written about here a time or two, I believe): how people view education these days. In listening to students at the university talk, I’ve found that most of them – when you really get down to it – just don’t care about really learning. They’re there for the grade, for the slip of paper at the end of the road.
I spoke to a fellow a couple of days ago who’s in the third world politics course that I’m taking. I asked him if he’d dropped the American history course that we had both started out in at the beginning of the semester; I asked because I hadn’t seem him in class for two weeks, and the class meets three times a week. “No,” he says. “I can bullshit my way through that professor’s tests, so I don’t come to class that often.” I just kind of nodded and went back to what I was doing at the time. By the way, that fellow’s major is history.
I’m not stupid; I realize that many view college as just a way to get a piece of paper which has, more or less, become a requirement to get your foot into the workplace door. Certainly, I want to get one of those slips of paper, too. I’d be lying if I said otherwise. But why has the desire to learn – to really learn, and not just cram to ace a test – declined so much? Maybe I’m being too idealistic in my views, but it seems to me that when you look at the behavior of higher education students in earlier time periods, they really did learn. Formerly, most students strived to master the material; now students regularly skip class because they know they can “bullshit their way through the tests.” It seems that the standards have dropped, and by a lot. What happened?
However, maybe I’m trying to graft my likes onto others. Learning for me isn’t a chore; I love it, actually, and it’s a huge part of who I am. If anything, maybe I go too far in the opposite direction: maybe I try to learn too much. I often feel like old Bilbo, “stretched thin,” like butter scraped over too much bread. I’ll find myself juggling different topics, often having to drop some until a later time. However, I try to always have something on the “learning burner,” so to speak, and thinking back, I honestly can’t remember the last time I wasn’t pursuing one subject or another. To me, the idea of taking a class and then purposefully skipping out and not learning anything, is just stupid.
What’s your take on the subject? Where does learning new stuff – regardless of what it is – rank in your life? High? Low? Not on the radar at all, as long as you’re having a good time? Do you think standards of education have dropped a lot in the past, say, century?
Tags: All Entries, behavior, college, Learning, personal
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“Maybe I’m being too idealistic in my views, but it seems to me that when you look at the behavior of higher education students in earlier time periods, they really did learn.”
What, have you read studies of student behaviors by their peers, over the decades? You may be right, but I don’t know how you personally could tell.
There’s also that simply many more people attend college now. You could have the same percent of the population trying to actually learn, but they no longer make up 90% of the student body.
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I don’t think I need to clarify that I love learning, too.
It’s an essential part of life for me.But then I can still relate to people who skip class. The lecture format is so boring for me! I can’t take in information by listening to people very well, and after a short while it just puts me to sleep.
And I don’t like being given a schedule for learning: this theory for week one, that theory for week two… I guess the thing I hate about school is that it’s so inefficient. Not everyone learns the same way, but at school everyone is taught the same way!
It might be the most practical solution for educating so many people with only so much money, but I can’t help but not like it. I wish I had a better solution, but I don’t. =P I see learning and getting a degree as two separate things. They overlap of course, but I learn better outside of class. If it wasn’t for the whole degree issue, I definitely wouldn’t be at college right now.
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I’m with you there Josh.
To kind of re-quote LearningNerd in my own words. I think learning can take place differently and at different places. You assume that because university has a tradition of being a place of learning everyone is there for that which is where your assessment fails.
It’s sad that so many people are there only for the paper. The fact that there are more of those types and less of the actual learners means the learners (myself among them) get shafted. We get less funding for our types of activities, less prof time, etc etc. Whilst the paper-seekers get everything done for them.
At my school so many things are done online to save time and money (yet my tuition has went up yearly). If you have a question, email the prof, if you have forms to do do them online, class assignments are handed in online and so on. The personal contact with the professor is so brief it makes me wonder what exactly I’m paying for.
I don’t know you’re aware of what took place at Bologna at about the 11th century, but at a law school there the students formed a guild that would hire and fire profs, they had complete control over school. So Mr.Slone’s comment about not knowing personally how school used to be… is certainly true, we weren’t there, but I think the evidence is in our favour. I’m sure you know that early universities systems were such that professors only got paid what the students wanted to pay. If a prof did poorly his hat would be empty at the end of the day.
I do indeed believe that the attitude toward learning has taken a downturn and much more emphasis has now been placed on material wealth and the attainment of it. Hence the requirement to actually be learned is decreased but the requirement to be a do-er is increased.
This is another topic that would have been good in a forum
. Josh for mod.
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@Slone:
What, have you read studies of student behaviors by their peers, over the decades? You may be right, but I don’t know how you personally could tell.
Now you’ve got me picking at my brain some more. I honestly don’t know where I’ve picked up that impression. In searching for something to back up my thoughts on the matter, I found this:
Literacy Among Today’s College StudentsThis section in particular caught my attention:
These students carry with them a sense of entitlement and anti-intellectualism. Many don’t want to know what’s going on in the world; they’ve told me it’s too depressing. So their source of news is often word of mouth. In other words, they rely on reports from their equally ignorant friends. Some have never heard of Auschwitz, Jonas Salk – or even Enron! When I asked one class what happened at Pearl Harbor, they confused it with Hiroshima and informed me that “that’s when we dropped the big one.”
The ubiquitousness of media has deformed their ability to perceive what truly matters in life; many value money and celebrity above all else, and think life is a movie where somehow something will turn up and make them successful, with only a minimal effort on their part.
And a bit later on:
What today’s students receive with their high school diplomas is a strong antipathy towards learning in a classroom environment. The American educational system has succeeded, in the space of a few decades, to turn the joy of learning into a completely unpleasant experience for the student. For them, the classroom is a place where a teacher spits out information, most of which is irrelevant to their lives (that sense of irrelevancy can be compounded when the teacher is Caucasian and the students are Hispanic or African-American), and their job is to regurgitate the information at the end of the course, get a grade, forget anything they were taught – and then do it all again next term.
The article pretty much aligns with how I’ve seen many of the students on campus act. Showing up to class looking like a rockstar has become far more important than showing up to class with half a clue. Many have lost any inclination towards actually paying attention in class, and I’ve lost count as to how many leave (and interrupt!) classes to take phone calls. They no longer bother leaving to take text messages.
Maybe this quote from the article sums up how a lot of my peers act in class: “I paid for my degree. Teach me only what I need to know in order to make money.” Even that, though, is stretching it for some; they don’t care at all about learning, they just want the paper.
@LearningNerd: Yeah, I’ll certainly admit that the system isn’t suited to everyone. I do well enough on lecture material and supplemental reading, but I know some don’t.
I most likely wouldn’t be in college either, if it weren’t for the degree. With some perseverence, I’m confident that I could learn most of the stuff I’m learning in college on my own – and for a much lower price! However, the facts are:
1. A degree pretty much is required.
2. I’ve paid a stupid price to be taught this stuff.
3. I’m going to learn it!As one professor of mine remarked, higher education is the only business where the customer is happy when the product is late or doesn’t show up.
@Tom:
You assume that because university has a tradition of being a place of learning everyone is there for that which is where your assessment fails.
Good point. I suppose I take the traditional view of college: higher education, with the emphasis on education.
In regards to interaction time with profs, the university I’m at isn’t quite that bad yet. The largest class I’ve been in had 40-50 people, and if you wanted to talk to the prof one on one, it wasn’t a problem. Most of my classes are usually in the 15-25 student range. Some of the stuff – notably class registration – has been migrated online, but speaking to profs directly is still quite possible (and usually the recommended course of action).
I didn’t know about the happenings at the law school in Bologna; that’s pretty interesting. The problem is, would a student guild in this day and age hire professors based on what they taught, or based on how easy they were?
I do indeed believe that the attitude toward learning has taken a downturn and much more emphasis has now been placed on material wealth and the attainment of it.
Quite reminiscent of the article I linked to! We live in a rock and roll world. It’s all about money; to hell with actually knowing anything.
Lastly…
This is another topic that would have been good in a forum
.kgang.com/forum.
Seriously, though – I’m not sure how much demand there is for a forum at this point. We all seem to do well enough bantering here in the comments. If I suddenly have 500 readers commenting, then I’ll think about a forum. -
How important is learning to me, personally? Vital. I have university degrees and a variety of licenses within my field but that’s not the kind of learning I count as vitally important in my life. I want to learn how to knit, how to quilt even more creatively, how to make compost more efficiently, design and impliment more remodeling projects for my home, find ways to use my land more productively and interestingly and I want to know more about the aging process and have realistic expectations for my future. You get the picture. The university degrees were necessary for my career but it is vital that I never stop learnng.
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@Cheryl: You sound a lot like me.
I’m working on my first degree, but, truth be told, it’s not the most important learning endeavor I’m engaged in. -
Continually learning, whether it be career-related, current events, or for personal enrichment, is an enormous part of my life.
A wise man once said, “When you stop learning, you die.” And to a certain extent, this adage is somewhat true. Think about it: You learn something new everyday, regardless of what anyone *thinks.* Reading the daily paper, you’re learning. Listening to the radio, you’re learning.
One thing that puzzle’s me is technology. Wasn’t technology supposed to, “Make our lives easier?” Wasn’t that it’s original intent and purpose? Then, why is it, you need a book to learn how to use your cell phone or PDA? Or, you have to read a manual to learn to set your TIVO? What’s even scarier is we’re on the cusp of technological ‘evolution.’ I read an article regarding the “Next wave of open-source & Internet technologies,” and it frightened me and almost SHITE my skivvies! No joke.
For us older folks, we must continue learning – to keep up with our kids, stay competitive in the workforce, and so we can work the new gadgets that come out almost daily nowadays.
Anyway, nice post & thoughts. Keep up the great work.
Alain
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Alain: I think that technology is behaving like most things that are supposed to simplify our lives – it’s just easier to see the irony with our level of technology because it’s what we’re watching develop. Having an alphabet and a written language “simplified” things, allowing us to record events and communicate over long distances – but we’ve still got to put in the time and effort of learning said alphabet and language. Cars simplified our lives by letting us travel long distances relatively quickly, but we had to learn how to drive them. Beds were a marvelous step up from the spot on the ground, but then we had to learn how to properly make the beds with all of the stuff that followed it: fitted sheets, comforters, multiple pillow cases. Certainly, I’m not saying that learning to make a bed is as difficult as using our modern tech (despite the fact I sometimes find it difficult to line sheets up just right); but regardless of what it is, if it’s new, it takes some learning.
Where was the article at? I’d like to read it. I didn’t know we were close to another big tech jump.
Good on you for staying on top of learning, both for work and for yourself.
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Here’s a thought. In line with what was mentioned earlier, it seems people develop a dislike for learning early in their educational career. You hear songs about how school sucks and how it’s not cool to like it. Well, everyone likes to be thought of as “cool” at that age so school takes a back seat. If you’re smart and actually try to do well you’re labeled a “teacher’s pet” or a nerd or something worse. There’s an actual social stigma against learning or doing well in school. It’s sad. If I could go back, knowing what I know now, I’d have given everyone/thing the finger and dug into my homework. I can say that now, of course, but back then I “knew it all” already and generally didn’t care. Now I’m paying for that attitude.
I’ve found that I DO enjoy learning and strive to learn OUTSIDE of formal education.
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