I was at a work party yesterday, for a Viking boat group I’m a member of. Considering that we’re all history geeks, there’s often some interesting history discussions to be had. Yesterday, this is what came up: what if the Vikings / Norse had succeeded in creating a defendable settlement in Vinland, and then moved southward into the eastern mainland of North America? Furthermore, what if they had assimilated with and intermarried with the Native Americans, particularly the Iroquois? The Iroquois were warlike, and part of their culture was the fact that they respected strength. This is quite similar to the Viking culture.
The Norse are well known for their practices of assimilation into and with other civilizations and cultures. They did so in Normandy (the name derives from ‘North Man’), as well as other lands on the mainland of Europe, Slavic lands, and the British Isles (Dublin was founded by Vikings, for example). So, the idea of them settling in North America and integrating with the Iroquois isn’t that far fetched. We talked about the fact that if the Greenlanders had had more people and more boats in good condition, there’s a good chance that is exactly what would have happened. If they had had more people to settle the area, there’s a good chance that trading outposts would have sprung up, particularly near ‘ports’ (like the St. Louis river).
The areas in which the Norse would have settled would have had vast amounts of lumber, which could have been taken back to Greenland or the other Scandinavian countries for trade. For example, as one of my friends put it, they could settle the area, build 4 or 5 boats, and fill them up with lumber. Make the voyage back to Greenland or Scandinavia, sell off all of the lumber and most of the boats, and then go back to the outposts in North America. ‘Rinse and repeat’, as they say.
The scenario comes with other ‘interestingness’ attached. If this had happened, blacksmithing would have spread to Native Americans much earlier. If a decent sized settlement of Norse was created in North America, news of such would have slowly trickled back to Europe. Granted, contact between the settlment(s) and Europe would probably be tenuous at first, but it would be there.
So, this much earlier contact would have changed a lot. Technological advances in Europe would have reached the Americas much sooner. One really important development that would have come out of this is that as settlers crossed the Atlantic, the technological level of the Europeans and the people living in America wouldn’t have been so drastic as they were in the 1500s and 1600s. For example, the creation of fire-arms would have taken place in Europe first (I believe, anyway – is that right, or was it China? They created gunpowder…), but the technology would have skipped across the pond much quicker, if a solid European (Norse) settlement was already in North America.
Another thing to consider is that Native American populations would have had a few centuries to build up immunities to diseases that were present in Europe. Of course, outbreaks of disease still would have occurred, but not nearly on the scale as they did later on. Not to the extent of mass deaths on the part of the Native Americans.
It’s really difficult to say where things would have gone if this had happened. If the Norse had assimilated into / with the Native Americans, what would they have done when further European settlers arrived? Welcomed them? Fought them?
In any case, it would’ve profoundly changed the course of history. It’s something interesting to think about.
Technorati Tags: vikings, norse, settlement
Comments 14
That’s why I enjoy fiction dealing with alternate realities.
Posted 28 Aug 2006 at 9:25 am ¶Yeah.
The conversation has gotten me interested in a lot of “what if” historical situations.
Posted 28 Aug 2006 at 9:29 am ¶Intriguing to think about. If the native tribes of America had access to European culture earlier, would they have stood a better chance? Would I be sitting here in NJ today? Would the US have ever been created? What kind of world would exist today?
Posted 28 Aug 2006 at 10:24 am ¶Exactly, Rhino. While no one can really be sure, I think that the North American continent would be broken up into a lot of small countries, like Europe, as opposed to having the massive country of the United States.
Granted, you might still be living today, but you also might be speaking a language derived from Old Norse or Iroquois.
Posted 28 Aug 2006 at 1:38 pm ¶I had this idea first. I can sue, you know.
No, for real. That’s really intriguing. I love AU fiction.
Posted 28 Aug 2006 at 2:07 pm ¶Okay, I misspelled “sue.” That’s embarrassing.”
Posted 28 Aug 2006 at 2:08 pm ¶Fixed that for you.
Posted 28 Aug 2006 at 2:20 pm ¶I was thinking further on your idea that if the Vikings had been around longer in North America, the mass deaths wouldn’t have been so mass. However, I’m not sure how this would work. Among the peoples the Vikings interact with, there’d still be deaths due to lack of immunities, which would bring an immunity to that particular group after a generation or so. However, to make much difference to the entire continent there’d have to be a hell of a lot of traveling, intermarrying, and dominant genery going on in those few centuries.
It seems like there’d be a similar number of deaths, just spread along a longer period of time due to a different pattern of expansion?
Posted 29 Aug 2006 at 1:25 pm ¶Well, the Vikings are well known for:
1. A hell of a lot of traveling.
2. A hell of a lot of intermarrying.
So, it’s not really that far fetched. There might be a similar number of overall deaths, but not on the scale as happened when Columbus and Co. ‘found’ America and started a mass settlement movement. And, like you said, it’d be spread out on a larger time scale (or so I think, anyway).
But, of course, I could be wrong. I quite often am.
Posted 29 Aug 2006 at 10:54 pm ¶Hm, just found this:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_100.html
So, maybe you’re right and I’m wrong. Maybe a bucketload of Native Americans would have died due to disease anyway.
Edit: While not exactly on topic, this is also interesting:
http://www.native-languages.org/iaq10.htm
Posted 29 Aug 2006 at 10:59 pm ¶What if….
….there hadn’t been Black Death in the 14th century?
….Columbus had found the way to India?
That ist really interesting to ask yourself these “what if” questions. A good idea for boring busrides. i love to discuss with myself.
thanx!
Posted 30 Aug 2006 at 2:16 pm ¶Zeitlos: some more very interesting questions. The one about the Black Death is really interesting, I think.
And yes, thinking about such things does make boring bus-rides go a bit quicker.
Posted 31 Aug 2006 at 9:23 am ¶Thanks, always good posts on your blog!
Posted 22 Apr 2007 at 2:29 pm ¶I am in the fifth grade and doing a report on vikings, and his was relly interesting to me.
Posted 24 Feb 2010 at 7:55 pm ¶Trackbacks & Pingbacks 1
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